Curse

Crimson_1190 · Aug 04, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I would like to see more missions with time limits....one thing that i would also find more amusing would be monks for the creaures ressing more frequently (i think i have seen it once or twice so i am not sure if they do now). I love alot of aspects of UW and FoW, thunderhead...aroura glade.
Missions within zones so mapping back for a reward is not an option....basically causing you to have to go over the map, and maybe between a few zones, or it resets. One thing i would also like as a personal addition, but I know most people wouldn't want so don't yell at me over this: more puzzles....things that require thought to do or to open. Also things that dont have that little green arrow and make you have to search. or missions that force a group to split up and defend different things.....

Snuk the Great · Aug 04, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Whatever happens, no timelimmits. I hate timelimmits. Sieges with how much time is left is oke, but to make someone rush somewhere is realy anoying, especialy when you want to enjoy the scenery and maybe kill all baddys.

I alse think that you should consider that the game should not get to hardcore, because then it would simpaly not sell. I like a hard game, but then make it hard without timelimmits. Better AI, bigger groups of monsters. Something like that. But once more NO TIMELIMMITS *twitch*

borkbork · Aug 04, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

May I ask have you been to the Crystal Desert yet or the South Shiverpaeks in your first post you haven't mentioned that.That is the tough part of the game especially for a caster who thinks they can down 3 Hydras or StoneElementals forget it.I have tough enough time getting my Monk through and this with real players you need a Warrior to run you to all the spots and no killing.In the SouthernPeaks it is much the same way although the henchies are better oh the Jungle yes it isn't that hard for level 16 or 17 to go through but the desert isn't as wel the south peaks.

Uh yes... I've gone through the desert and South Shiverpeaks. (I mentioned Thunderhead?) I'm pretty sure the desert used to be harder and you had to watch your step (especially in Prophet's Path) at the very beginning of release. See, that was fun since you had no idea how many jades scarabs would pop up when the ground started trembling.

Now you can just grab henchies and hulksmash your way to whatever outpost and not even have to think twice about it. Including 3 hydras.

On the issue of time limits... Elona had 30 minutes, and it does teach you to keep your cool when the timer's running down. That was also plenty of time to finish the mission.

If future mobs won't just walk around, stand there and let you slaughter them.. It'll be nice to see them fight back in different ways, or actually attempt to run away from us!

Gedscho · Aug 04, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

in my guild, everybody hated me when i was preaching about aggro managment (as i call it), and got really serious about it. Now everybody knows how to use the AI of the enemy mobs to their advantage, and when i am on TS -just listening- i hear them using the tactics i suggested. and i hear them loving it.
(well i only gathered the ideas and laid out a general strategy, but the training and all the necessary improvements were done by the guild.)

there is a downside: for instance in UW our tactics work so well, people fall asleep. that is no joke.
europe got favour mostly late nights.
And if you just gotta be disciplined and not really fast and creative, because all the work has already been done in the planning phase, PEOPLE REALLY FALL ASLEEP. especially the healers...
i cant even imagine, how boring this must be for hardcore pvp veterans.

do you know what i do against it? i aggro random mobs, and basically do leroy jenkins stuff just to create a more "pvp like" chaos, and get some tension and training back. (and so the circle closes. back to the start, playing like a n00b. they already call me "Rushing Monk")

sometimes i wish we had areas were enemies would be more equal in level and number to us, but play a bit smarter. dont tell me "then play pvp"

maybe i am just sadistic and curious and want to see how well anet could REALLY perform in AI programming.

pyr0ma5ta · Aug 04, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

I remember hitting the desert 2 days after release, and oh man, was that walk to Augury a pain in the you-know-where. You would take two steps, and your 6-man team would get bumrushed by 20 scarabs. I ended up doing a full-out run with 5 other warriors or rangers, with the 5 guys with lowest life running around in circles when we almost go to the teleporter, and the guy with highest life activating it and running the rest of the way. Man, was that a great run. It was HARD, and it was fun. It was soon nerfed to the point of farmability (although they gave the scarabs some enchantment stripping with chillblains now, so they're no longer farmable again, but easily henchable).

Elona also used to be harder, with more mobs spawning after getting the second crystal, and a harder swarm to fight through to get back to the hero. I loved it. It's also been nerfed, but the time limit is still a good idea, although less of an issue now.

Quote:

And if you just gotta be disciplined and not really fast and creative, because all the work has already been done in the planning phase, PEOPLE REALLY FALL ASLEEP. especially the healers...

Absolutely. I pvp'd during airspike season as a monk almost daily, and man was it a challenge to heal and prot spirit the right guy, because if you were a quarter second late, you had to spend 2 seconds and a res sig. Monking against mobs that don't focus fire and use DOT is just way too slow paced to be a challenge at all.

Quote:

sometimes i wish we had areas were enemies would be more equal in level and number to us, but play a bit smarter. dont tell me "then play pvp"

I absolutely agree. I would love to see challenging AI that it takes more than 5 braincells to beat, without fighting against healball and spirit spam strategies. When Airspike was the FOTM, it was exciting because either you won, or you lost, and it was over in 30 seconds, and the most coordinated teams always won. Now it's just whoever can spam OathShot faster, and it just makes me sad.

What borkbork is advocating, and I wholeheartedly agree, is mobs with more intelligence. Not just more mobs. But mobs who run away, res each other, use skills that compliment each other (earthshaker + aftershock, anyone?), coordinate spike damage, and recruit other groups to help fight would make the game dynamic, interesting, and not just a brainless 3-step process (pull, pound, repeat). I of course have not thought of everything that could be done, but any/all of these would make the game more interesting and challenging for those who are looking for it.

Dumb Quixote · Aug 04, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Oh oh oh... I know... have three different "difficulty" levels where you play the same levels, just make all the monsters harder each time. You could call the first one NORMAL. The next one... hmm... NIGHTMARE! Then something like HELL. And add a World Event whereby an UBER RURIK randomly spawns....

Wait a minute... that's been done already? Nevermind.

Age · Aug 04, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

If there were mission timers just think when the mission is over and you completed it you forgot to capture that skill.There are those of us out there that have other things in life when you are 38+you can't sit there play it like 25 year old.We have other things to do and some a parents.I have only been playing RTS games for the last 2 to 3 years.It may be a cat walk for you but for soem of us it isn't believe me I have seen it.The game is mostly meant for PVP anyway and that is fine everybody is on an even scale not in PVE.It is mostly about gettting through the game to get your skills and to go and play PvP and stick to it.GW is about PVP not PVE.That is why there are ladder guild.If you want challenge go play PVP either in the Arenas or the Halls of Heros.

stumpy · Aug 04, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Trying doing some UW/FoW, then tell me if its too easy.

yes ... underworld is ... (says the smiter)

and fissure ... woe is me ... all my lonely little pve azz has left islil ole woe.

i hear ya ... i htink that they made this game too easy (even fighting hell charr, and uber 1337 rurik of pwnascolonage) for the people just learning the game ... I am sure it cant possibly continue on this easy ... 15 hours what? on a 100+hour game? hmmm ... you know its easy when .... (or better yet, you know your a nerd when ...)

BigTru · Aug 04, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Haha, the Charr? I left Rurik to do his own thing the whole mission. He completed it by himself.

BurningPants · Aug 04, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

The later missions in the game (River, Thunderkeep) are perhaps the hardest and the most fun to play. The problem with many of the other missions though is just a simple get from point A to point B objective with a slight variances. Take Borlis Pass. Get from Point A to Point B while lighting torches along the way, then do the same thing after a brief intermission of monster fighting. Take Frost Gate, get from point A to point B while destroying catapults along the way so that Rurik can get passed.

Give the low levels something more exciting like a capture the flag event or even king of the hill on some of the early missions.

Maybe a difficulty setting can be implemented, if you are really looking for a challenge, then you can turn the difficulty to hard meaning that monsters get a speed bonus or have more attribute points or spells or something like that.

BigTru · Aug 04, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

All the endgame missions are fairly easy.

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I had a thread around here somewere were I suggested how to make the game difficulty better but I'm not sure were it is I will find it and post a link in here.

here it is: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/...ead.php?t=31832

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BurningPants · Aug 04, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

All the endgame missions are fairly easy.

Thank you for your detailed post. Come to think of it most people find a mission hard because they don't have a diverse/good setup for their team. If you want a challenge, try doing these missions without a monk?

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

^^
I can do them all with no primary monk. And even most if not all of them with no secondary monks either with a good team

Now heres that link to my thread http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=31832

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Go here for a really fun free game:
http://games.photics.com/rogueBATTLE/?u=829
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Dayala · Aug 04, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

What happened to the pendulum? Remember back in the testing phase, Gaile said that finding the difficulty level was a swinging pendulum. I think that the pendulum needs a kickstart.

One arguement is that GW is a pvp game. Those players only want to get through to level 20 and unlock skills. I believe that arguement is no longer valid, as they (pvp players) now have faction. They can unlock any skill/item by playing the game they like to play.

The other arguement is that the game needs to be easy for beginners. I agree. Then define a beginner. At what point does a player stop being a beginner, and the game can become more challanging for players? Do you honestly feel that the missions get harder as we progress? Some players argue that FoW and UW are the 'hard areas'. I disagree. Those maps (like every other map) is how well you can pull. UW is soloable, and FoW only takes a handful of players to work. Granted, those players must work as a team, so in that I conceed teamwork and communication are needed.

This is touted as a game of skill. Where does any pve player need to have mastered skill to play this game? Note that lack of skill does not equal stupidity. Yes, if you have Joe Retard in your group that rushes/agros/pouts and basically plays like most PUGs then the mission could fail. But that failure was not from a difficulty in the mission, but rather the stupidity of one player. Example: I have a guild mate that plays at different times that anyone else in the guild. He has taken 4 characters through the game using henchies. Yeah, this game is too easy.

Anet, if you are listening, please bring some sembalance if difficulty back to the game for the pve players. We love this game, and you are losing a fan base of dedicated players when you cater to players demanding 'easier' missions. Some would then argue that catering to the players wanting harder missions will drive away the new players. I (obviously) disagree. Those "new" players will get better as the game progresses, have more fun playing the game, and return for the expansion.

EF2NYD · Aug 04, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

You can solo the entire UW ?

Also play without monks, you'll develop better character AND a better character

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I can solo UW (all of it and do about half the quests) with my monk and do the rest of the game with a full team and no monks or monk secondarys.

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Go here for a really fun free game:
http://games.photics.com/rogueBATTLE/?u=829
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Arcador · Aug 04, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Some people (stuck in certain missions) will probably kill you for this topic :PPP

Age · Aug 04, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

This will be my last posting in this thread but if you make much more harder there will be those that will pay a Kings Ransom to get run to Draknors Forge and get their armor.

borkbork · Aug 04, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

This will be my last posting in this thread but if you make much more harder there will be those that will pay a Kings Ransom to get run to Draknors Forge and get their armor.

I don't want to turn this into a 'forge run' debate, since there's another post about that nearby. One of the main reasons people rush to Droknar's Forge is because the beginning PvE missions are too boring and easy. There's just no fun and challenge now, even the first time through. Besides, forge runs are quite cheap.

Now, back to the subject of increasing the complexity of PvE... we need more maps or quests that don't involve bashing monsters from point a to point b.

The attune run in Aurora Glade is similar to a relic run in PvP. I'd like to see a similar map like that, but with an AI that actually gives you some sense of challenge. I usually just attune, and wonder: 'Uhh.. where's the white mantle...'

A chase map would be fun too, like the incoming Charr army at the end of the first mission. I understand the mission was nerfed so new players could adjust, but I feel the nerf went too far since I would never see the Charr show up until the end.

In a future map, I would like to see the enemy actually show up on my radar before I hit the end goal... or actually use some run skills to catch up to me. An interesting tactic that could come up: Teams might have to sacrifice some people to body block, and let a runner get through to the end.

In Elona, I seemed to remember mobs swarming out of the gates after the 2nd crystal, but after finishing it on a 3rd char, it seemed like the mission was nerfed so they just sit around and let you walk away with the crystal...